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Tuesday, February 07, 2006


APRALO Minutes

ICANN has a habit of being as non-transparent as possible. You would think that the minutes of a meeting discussing the possible formation of an Asia-Pacific Regional At-Large Organization could readily be found on the ALAC portion of the ICANN website... but you would be wrong. Here are the minutes that you would otherwise not have seen (even though the ALAC's Executive Secretary, Denise Michel, has stated that minutes would be circulated):

APRALO Formation Meeting
2 December 2005
(recorded by Jacob Malthouse)

EDMUND: Concerns seems to be formation of a council that would be regionally representative. Idea: council may be formed later. RALO can help to do outreach first.

KUO-WEI: Two comments: If RALO doesn’t work? What is the legitimacy of doing interim for ever

HOWARD: Is it necessary to form a formal ALAC structure? ICANN is an open structure.

DENISE: RALO structure is intended to facilitate user group decisions about who will participate on the ALAC. One useful area is as a secretariat to assist with nomination and translation. Don’t think of RALO as requirement. Loosely defined structure. It will do what we will find useful for the region.

HONG: Suggestion: five minutes for IZUMI to explain his RALO idea. Issue: are we working hard to establish a concept that will be a failure? Principles of RALO: openness, transparency and inclusive.

SHESHAN: Suggest all discussion about RALO be delegated to some other meeting. Lets work on agenda as it is.

STAFFORD: First meeting about this at Luxemburg. RALO was established. I support RALO. Enough people here to make a positive input.

SEBASTIAN: RALO will be as successful as you make it.

EDMUND: This is not a bad discussion. But agree we should focus on the current framework. Can we have a less formal structure. Facilitating role.

JOINS: DAVID FARRER – chair of internet new Zealand.

EDMUND: Look at GAC model?

KUO-WEI: Organise people working on outreach/finance. Council is not hierarchical or bureaucratic. Wants to ensure coordination. A lot of this has already been discussed.

HONG: How can we make people outside of the meeting aware of this process?

DENISE: Minutes will be circulated.

HONG: If there is going to be an APRALO. It will be the first one. There is no model to follow. We will be pioneers. ICANN approved draft of RALO. This is going to be a challenge. We have five regions in the World. Standard or differing models. Key constituencies in ICANN are going to reform as result of WSIS. We need to keep an open mind.
CHAIR (Chair for this meeting was Izumi Aizu) Current observation. Myself, Esther and Denise (DENISE and others…Vittorio) DISCUSSION. Developed RALO. How to effectively channel the global voice of users in the advisory? We need a channel. ICANN is global. Because meetings expensive, have local groups to collate input from regions. ALS could be issue or region based. We decided to have a structure to help manage and ensure the quality of interaction from users. Second point. Measure of legitimacy? Countries/companies/people etc? yes have some doubt about RALO. But let’s see how things develop in practice.

SEBASTIAN: Some NA ALAC members have their own agendas. Board and voting discussion is Byzantine, not sure we will solve it now or tomorrow. Good thing is that new organisations are becoming interested. The AP RALO will serve as an example for other regions to encourage them to grow and start their own RALOs.

HOWARD**: Have better understanding thanks. Why do we need a bylaw? Prefer something informal.

KUO-WEI: What is the legitimacy of ALAC? Interim for ever? Don’t want uniform structures. Every region has its own process.

HONG: Believe that ICANN would like to maintain a bottom line of uniformity. One region could use GAC model, another could use ALAC, every region should have a RALO, that is bottom line. But understand that this is an experiment and we need to be courageous.

SEBASTIAN: Most interim members are not planning to be here the rest of our lives.

CHAIR: Summing up. LEGITIMACY is key. Is RALO the right structure? Especially if it has a heavyweight structure? No one insisting on heavyweight structure. Some uncertainty about the future of global RALO. Majority of people agree we need to be courageous.

STAFFORD: Personal feeling is we need some “rules” to say this is how we are going to conduct our business. If we have some informal rules it might help us to focus our business. Refer to TAIWAN meeting document as a basis for discussion.

FRANCK MARTIN: You need a chairman to help coordinate and liaise. ICANN may provide support once RALO is up and running.

GARTH: I would like to talk about the bylaws: 3.1.2 Change expression at beginning “to promote and represent” to “understand and advocate for” Council and council meetings: specify that council meetings are OPEN.

HONG: Suggest that each presentation/intervention should be maximum five minutes.

FRANCK: These things should be up to the chair to conduct meetings as they want.

CHAIR: Agree to create RALO?

HOWARD: Do we need to discuss bylaw today? Do we have enough people in the region? AL is representative of the end users. I formally represent ISOC China and would like to see more representatives of the same qualifications.

DAVID: People don’t join organisations like this to debate bylaws. Need a workable-flexible structure, then move on to talking about the issues. Lets move quickly.

HOWARD: can you define numbers? One person from two-thirds of country or regional economy.

KUO-WEI: So now is not right time because not enough people?

HOWARD: That is what I am suggesting.

HONG: Nature of our discussion? See concern from Howard and Guo Weh. We need consensus in this room are we ready to take these decisions about they bylaws?

CHAIR: Anyone want to decide bylaws immediately? [Silence] Anyone not want to discuss bylaws? [Silence]
Suggest we discuss for 30 min. circulate. Decide how to decide next step.

EDMUND: Should we call it bylaw? Something else?

SEBASTIAN: Voting mechanism and council at this point? Maybe have a light structure and first and develop this over time?

CHAIR: Think everyone agrees

ROBERTO: Timing and interest of people: next ICANN meeting will take place in Wellington. Put yourself in the best position for that meeting. Wellington will be a stage for you to be operational.

SHASHANI: ICANN bylaws define what a RALO is. Clause: ALAC / RALO relationship has to be defined. READS FROM ICANN BYLAWS. Lets focus on the concept of membership?

FRANCK: Suggest we review bylaw and submit them to a vote.

EDMUND: That is a quick and dirty way to go about it. Some of the concerns raised today warns us to go a little bit further in our discussions. We should thank Stafford but could also revise this as he suggested.

HONG: No objection to current text. Rather than going through provisions one by one. We should establish some principles or guidelines for the bylaws. Strongly suggest that there should be video or sound recording in future.
I just got this version of the bylaws last night. Makes it difficult to comment.

CHAIR: Minutes of Taipei were circulated following Taipei. Bylaws were finished a week following Taipei and circulated

HONG: I cannot receive all and every message.

CHAIR: Did you raise that before?

HONG: Suggest we reform our communication system.

DENISE: Given challenges in working internationally. It would be appropriate for us to use the AP RALO website / email list / and other infrastructure. Have asked ICANN webmaster to create and maintain that list and ensure website operational. ICANN will ensure audio and video webcast of all future meetings.

CHAIR: In the interim good solution. We should also have our own structure.

FRANCK: This is just some rules of proceeding together. Only one thing is missing. How do we change these bylaws? Could we put a rule about how to change the bylaws and that will make it easier for us to move forward.
Council should meet annually? Perhaps better to meet every time ICANN is in the region?

HOWARD: Hesitate to call it bylaw.

CHAIR: Suggestion?

HOWARD: Principles of action.

CHAIR: Have to finish meeting in 30 mins

EDMUND: Suggest operating principles. Suggest one further redraft. ALAC allows voice of user to be heard on the board.

ROBERTO: Keep Wellington in mind for furthering the discussion. ALAC gives an additional opportunity to interact directly with the board. RALO allows for coordination and channelling of ideas into formalised opinions.

SEBASTIAN: Thanks for saying ICANN open!

VITTORIO: This work should be region driven. Understand you have a difficult job. Your region is large and diverse. If you succeed this will really be a true success. Want to thank everyone for their hard work.

SHASHANI: Channel created to allow Could we continue to discuss this online so that before the next meeting we have something.

HOWARD: I am one with reservation about bylaws. I would like to see more outreach before we have formal discussion.

EDMUND: Would like to meet again to plan outreach etc.

FRANCK: As long as we leave it open for change to occur we should be ok. Lets agree this structure and then we can amend over time.

CHAIR: Appropriate diversity may be hard to gauge in this discussion. Suggest we discuss this further informally.

SHASHANI: Suggest you create an AP RALO to discuss this

CHAIR: We have a list already.

SHASHANI: Suggesting a specific list for the BYLAWs.

DAVID: Two major upcoming meetings APRICOT - Perth February. Next ICANN meeting is in Wellington.

CHAIR: Another meeting at 1800 today.

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